Dear Men: So you think you want a ‘strong, independent woman’

So you think you want a ‘strong, independent woman’.

Written by Dr Jessica Taylor

4th January 2020

This blog is written for men, talking directly to men. Men who have an interest in women (whether heterosexual or bisexual).

Even more specifically, the men who say that they want a strong, independent woman. The men who find powerful, determined women sexy.

The men who write on forums that they are looking for women who pay their own way, won’t ‘rinse them’ and have their own careers and minds.

The men who say they love an intelligent, educated woman because they are ‘feisty’. Ew.

Sound like you? Sound like a man you know?

There are some things you need to know before you go chasing women who have their shit together. If you get all the way through this blog and still think you can be a good partner to the ‘strong, independent woman’ you seek – then great stuff, crack on.

However, if this blog makes you uncomfortable or angry – you might want to re-evaluate your choices and consider that you will not make a good partner for a determined woman. You might even want to question whether you are fetishizing women or hope to control them.

I would hope it goes without saying, but I am proven wrong over and over again on the internet so here goes:

Many of the points I raise in this blog are relevant to all women. Respect all women. I cannot stress that enough. These ‘strong independent women’ you are interested in aren’t any better than any other woman and they aren’t worth more than any other woman.

Independent women don’t need you

The most important point that you need to get super comfortable with, super quick; is that the ‘strong, independent woman’ you want doesn’t actually need you for anything. She doesn’t need you to fund her life. She doesn’t need you to rescue her. She doesn’t need to be showered with gifts or compliments. She doesn’t need you to protect her. She doesn’t need you to provide for her.

No, she doesn’t need you. Instead, she is interested in you.

Wanting a partner is different from needing a partner. The women you are interested in don’t need you because they are already self-sufficient. If you are looking for a woman to fix, rescue, provide for and control – you need to look at yourself and explore why you want to be a dominator in your relationships instead of an equal.

The ‘strong, independent woman’ you want is looking for an equal contributor in a relationship, not someone who seeks to rescue her or control her.

You need to get comfortable with being wanted but not needed. If you want a relationship in which the woman is reliant on you for everything, the issue lies with you. Anyway, isn’t it the biggest compliment to anyone to be wanted instead of needed?

Independent women don’t want to fix you or babysit you

If you are attracted to women who have their shit together, don’t expect her to drop everything she is doing to babysit you and your life. Equals in a relationship support each other, but they don’t babysit one another. You are a grown man and you need to be independent, too. Have your own hobbies and interests and goals in life. Do your own washing, your own cooking, your own cleaning, your own bill payments. Remember your Mum’s birthday all by yourself. Look after the kids. Know where the Christmas decorations are. Book your own hospital appointments. Remember the kid’s parent’s evenings and plays without being reminded seven times.

Similarly, women are not your rehab. Not just the independent, strong women you fancy – but any woman at all. Your girlfriend, your mother, your ex, your female mates. None of them are here to fix you and nurture you. Women are not in the world to fix broken men.

No matter what has happened to you in childhood or in your life, it is not the job of a woman (the olde ‘love of a good woman will fix you’ narrative) to repair your broken pieces. Do it yourself, the way women have for millennia.

Don’t seek a relationship in order to fix yourself or to gain a full time maid and mother.  If this section is making you uncomfortable, you might want to explore your own therapy, support or advice before seeking new relationships. If you recognise that you are currently in a relationship with a ‘strong’ woman who you have been expecting to fix you or babysit you, stop.

Stop, take a step back, look at your behaviour and attitudes towards yourself and her. Then go and seek help. Like now.

Independent women have their own shit going on that you don’t need to be a part of 

The women you seek are likely to have a whole host of goals, priorities, responsibilities and roles in their lives that you don’t need to be a part of. It’s not that you shouldn’t care about what she is passionate about, but you don’t have to be the centre of it all. You don’t have to be included and you don’t have to be the centre of her attention all the time.

This is not at all negative. You both still exist as humans in your own right. You don’t have to do everything together. You need to respect each other and what you both care about, but you don’t have to be involved.

Traditionally, men have had these roles and goals for centuries and women were excluded from all of it. It was a social norm that women didn’t accompany men to their meets, their employment, their social events or their travels. Globally, there are still many environments and parts of life that women are excluded from because they are perceived as irrelevant or a nuisance to men. However, when a woman does the same thing, it is often seen as the woman not caring about her male partner or being selfish or neglectful to her relationship or marriage.

Think about what I am saying. Are you the bloke that moans that Steve has brought his missus to the pub again, but then guilt trips your girlfriend or wife when she wants to go out alone with her friends or colleagues?

You don’t need to be the centre of their world all of the time. You are supposed to be their equal. Go through life together – but that doesn’t mean that she needs to put you at the centre of everything she does.

If you have ever said the words ‘You’re supposed to put me above everyone and everything else…’ then you Sir, have issues with control.

 

Independent women are often feminists, activists, career focussed, or goal orientated – and you need to be happy with that

This one is important. This one is for all the men who claim they want a ‘strong, independent’ woman but hate feminism, activism, career-focussed and goal-orientated women. These attitudes are incompatible. Many women find feminism. They start to realise that there is discrimination, oppression and mockery of intelligent and successful women and they will find their clan. They become more and more critical of the way they are treated in their careers, studies and lives.

In the words of Maya Angelou, ‘Of course I am a feminist. I have been a female for a long time now. It’d be stupid not to be on my own side.’

The last thing they need is a man who is uncomfortable with feminism, women’s rights, career-focus and ambition. Especially when that man professed to be attracted to independent, go-getting women.

If anything at all, they need a partner who truly recognises, admits and validates their struggle and is by their side when they are belittled, mansplained, discriminated against and trolled for being brilliant. They don’t need you threatening to kick people’s head in for them. They need you to listen to them and be there for them when shit gets hard.

If you want an ‘independent woman’, you better get with the feminist programme and take some time to learn what feminism is, what it means to women and girls and why its so much harder for women and girls to make it in their careers, studies, sports, hobbies or passions. Read books. Listen to podcasts. Learn who her favourite feminists/activists/politicians are. Listen to the issues that affect her.

Not because it will make you attractive to more women, but because you actually want to learn this shit and care about it. Women can see right through woke bros.

If this section is making your skin crawl and you hate the concept of feminism, you’re better off just leaving all women alone to be honest. Feminism is the movement to liberate all women and girls from global oppression, misogyny and sexism.

If you can’t get behind that, stay away from females forever.

Independent women don’t want to be fetishized as some sort of sexy, domineering anomaly

The final point is about the way ‘strong’, ‘independent’, ‘powerful’, ‘boss’, ‘ambitious’ women are fetishized and sexualised as some sort of porn dream.

There are generally two ways this occurs:

  1. Men want to dominate, break down and domesticate women who are gender non-conforming, successful and independent as some sort of sick conquest to prove to themselves that they are still the most powerful person in the relationship
  2. Men want these women to dominate them, rule them, control them and harm them as some sort of submission to strong women as a fetish

News for you all – both attitudes towards successful women are abusive, unhealthy and porn-fuelled. Fuck off with both of them.

Yet, they are common attitudes towards independent women. Male song writers and performers of all genres have sang and rapped about domesticating successful women for decades. The obsession with ‘taming’ and ‘controlling’ women also rolls right through chick-flicks and romance films in which women are usually positioned as high-flying career women who are doing well until some bloke wants to fuck/date/marry them and then their life falls to pieces whilst the guy does literally everything he can to get what he wants and convinces her to move to Vancouver with him, fix all his life problems, care for his elderly mother and be pregnant forever.

Even the concept of the ‘strong, independent woman’ is bullshit really. The imagery of these women used in music videos, films, media and books are usually white, middle class, educated, rich, privileged, thin, beautiful and feminine.

Most ‘strong, independent women’ you will meet will not be from this walk of life.

She will be the teenage mother who raised three kids alone and is now the powerful matriarch who can hold down her household by herself.

She will be the young black woman who was discriminated against all the way through school, college and university until she graduated the top of her class and is now still standing strong in the face of racism and misogyny in her profession.

She will be the young woman who is covered in scars from self-harm who is now working as a therapist but is constantly up against discrimination because of the perception of her as a victim-turned-expert.

She will be the sixty-year-old butch woman who has spent her life marching to protect women and girls from trafficking, exploitation and abuse.

She will be the ‘mouthy, outspoken’ young woman arguing about politics online, out-classing everyone who tries to belittle and humiliate her.

She will be the divorced woman in her 30s who has decided to go to university to study the subject she never got to pursue when she was younger; all whilst working 40 hours a week and caring for her family.

These women are not a sex object to jack off to or fantasise about how you can make or break them. They are not a woman to be controlled or domesticated by you. They are not your mother. They are not your babysitter. They are not a fetish.

The ‘strong, independent woman’ you want is very likely to argue back, put you in your place when you step out of line, tell you when they aren’t happy, refuse to cook, clean and baby you and will more than likely leave you if you try to mould them into the submissive woman they are not.

Women exist in the world. They take up space and they make noise and they change shit up and they challenge you. Their success is theirs. Their hard work is theirs. Their struggle is real. Their effort and time are valuable. Their independence is important to them.

She is not a fetish. She is not an anomaly. She is not a conquest.

So, you think you want a ‘strong independent woman’?

And you’re sure you don’t just want to knock her down and mould her into your wifey?

Can you really be a respectful, equal, supportive man to a woman who has her own shit going on?

If you truly are attracted to strong, independent women – nothing in this blog will offend you or make you uncomfortable. Remember that.

Quick questions to ask yourself

  1. Are you comfortable with her having goals, priorities and ambitions that don’t include you?
  2. Are you going to support her when it gets hard or are you going to tell her to quit or ‘tone it down’?
  3. Are you going to feel emasculated by her?
  4. Are you comfortable with a woman earning more than you or being more successful than you?
  5. Are you fetishizing the woman?
  6. Are you seeking a woman to control, domesticate and tame?
  7. Are you turned on by her success or power and want her to dominate or harm you?
  8. Are you uncomfortable with feminism and activism?
  9. Are you comfortable with her seeking further education and opportunities?
  10. Are you comfortable with her remaining independent in her roles, spaces and responsibilities?

Think about your answers. Honestly.

Dr Jessica Taylor

Tweet: @DrJessTaylor

Email: jessica@victimfocus.org.uk

Facebook: www.facebook.com/Jessforenpsych

259 thoughts on “Dear Men: So you think you want a ‘strong, independent woman’

  1. White man writing, proud son of a strong, independent woman.

    I agree on most points. But there still is the elephant in the room that is called feminism. I just cant get behind it. Not because i am male, although that is some small part of it, more below. I am an equalist, everybody should have the same rights and freedom of choice. With exceptions, i can not truly defend the rights of racists/sexists/ableists, or just about anyone whose main intent is to make other peoples lives miserable, to be assholes.
    Feminism is an umbrella term that contains in its folds some really wacky bs. TERFs like Janice Raymond for example.

    Or Suzanna Danuta Walters, professor of sociology and director of the Women’s, Gender, and Sexuality Studies Program at Northeastern University: “So men, if you really are #WithUs and would like us to not hate you for all the millennia of woe you have produced and benefited from, start with this: Lean out so we can actually just stand up without being beaten down. Pledge to vote for feminist women only. Don’t run for office. Don’t be in charge of anything. Step away from the power. We got this. And please know that your crocodile tears won’t be wiped away by us anymore. We have every right to hate you. You have done us wrong. #BecausePatriarchy. It is long past time to play hard for Team Feminism. And win.”
    Dafuq? I am hated for my chromosome setup? No regards given if i, personally, ever oppressed a woman? Or took away from her access to power? Or the simple fact that i did not live for millennia to “produce woe”. And how “step away from power” for all men just means switching the pyramid instead of toppling it?

    But my biggest stumbling block is the claim feminism makes to encompass “all gender inequalities”. Which it does not. I have yet to see any feminist of any orientation try to redress male grievances. Not just mention them, if at all. There are calls for more women in higher echelon management levels, which is fine. Go, Girls! But none to have more women in dangerous workplaces or even just sewage worker and garbage disposal etc. Seems to be ok if 90% of work-related deaths fall on mens shoulders and if they do the dirty jobs. Another example: A lot of western societies still drafted young men for the military in the recent decades, or still do, but no feminist ever said “Women need to be drafted too, in the name of equality.” Yes, a lot of male problems are considerable less hard then female ones. They still need to be taken care of. And that cannot happen if feminism wants to be single, all-encompassing social movement for addressing any and all gender inequalities and does not live up to that.

    My last problem with feminism is the concept of patriarchy. Which just distracts from the fact that most people get shafted by capitalist power structures, not male ones. Men hold more power on average, true. But not because they have some secret brotherhood sworn on keeping women down. Rather because there are more men with money, economic influence and access to the means of production. The rich and influential are interested in keeping common folks from asking for their fair share, political in-fighting of the lower classes along gender trenches are a welcome distraction from asking about real equality.

    Liked by 5 people

    1. So, until feminism is perfect you will support other imperfect views because . . .

      Help me out here, because you danced around a lot to say very little and I am wondering what perfectly formulated position you hold that negates feminism.

      Me, equality and body autonomy has delivered a huge dividends in my life, so I support them for everyone else.

      As i read in a book I wrote:

      “Only the incompetent fear a level playing field.”

      Liked by 7 people

      1. Which is why feminists don’t campaign for equal criminal sentences, and act to shut down centres that deal with male specific issues.

        They are scared of an equal playing field. So by your logic, they are incompetent. I believe it.

        Indeed, Jessica herself wrote an article stating: “why I don’t want to be equal to men”

        Liked by 3 people

      2. I dont need to negate feminism. Feminism is fine in many ways. I just rebuke the feminist claim to all fight all gender inequalities.

        And like mentioned above, feminism is a mixed bag. I cant stand with my trans friends AND support a social movement that contains transphobics among its ranks. I cant get behind it as long as it has mysandrists. Its like a large, yummy looking cake that most people contribute eggs and flour and sugar to. But a small fraction brings horse manure. Still looks good enough to eat, but i dont want a taste of it.

        That does not mean i dont agree with an overwhelming lot of feminist viewpoints.

        Liked by 1 person

      3. If Jessica doesn’t want to be equal to men, then that just plays into the fact that feminism isn’t about equality. I mean, that’s the bullshit spewed when the ideas are challenged but it’s not held up at all.

        Like

      4. With respect, second wave feminism does not seek equality with men, it seeks to liberate women from global oppression of men and to change the way men oppress and abuse women and girls on a global scale.
        The ‘equality for all’ messages you are talking about come from third wave neoliberal feminism.
        Feminism is not one ideology.

        Liked by 2 people

      5. See what autonomy you have if you try to get a vasectomy without consulting your partner. Your body your choice? Nope mate. How dare you not consult her. In fact many doctors won’t even discuss it without your wife or girlfriend present.

        Different if she aborts your child. She doesn’t have to get your permission. Nor should she have to, just so you ladies don’t misunderstand me.

        Both decisions affect the other partner.

        Bodily autonomy for her, regardless of the effect on you. No bodily autonomy for you, because it affects her.

        “My body, my choice” should be a two way street, ladies. Otherwise you just look like selfish assholes.

        🙄

        Like

    2. This is extremely well put! As a woman I have to agree with you. However, I also believe that the pendulum has to swing to both extremes before it can settle in the middle.

      Liked by 3 people

      1. So basically you get to take your turn shitting on men who weren’t even born when women were truly oppressed?

        You’re definitely equal to men, that’s for sure.

        Like

    3. Was catching up on FB, (this articled was shared) why not read it. Well I read it, agree with most of it, have some thoughts on 8 since I am the son of a single mom who raised me solo. My mom is more of a Margret Thatcher in my opinion than a Rebecca Walker. I believe that women can be as strong as they want and even be feminist without being a 3rd wave feminist which at least in some of the media seems to dominate part of the conversation. I think that some of feminism has taking atone of Anti male (Gillette, #meetoo to name a few) of late in our culture and a woman would be fine with addressing that shift. I have seen very few that are “feminists” be fine with males having issues they want to discus. Anyway interesting article thanks for the share.

      Like

    4. You might consider reading A History Of Their Own- Women in Europe From Prehistory To The Present. I absolutely agree with you that capitalist and other power structures damage all humans except those at the top, but we still need to look at how these structures work with or against various types of humans within them. Not just male and female, but able or disabled, racially, etc. These two dense books make it plain that the winners in these power structures are generally male and white, or male and any other variation. That’s the patriarchy at work within these structures, but patriarchy works around the world and in every single society no matter what it’s based on to consolidate power and wealth for the top males. Without addressing this issue we could replace the capitalist paradigm with some other social structure and still see very few changes for anyone not male or white/etc.

      Like

    5. Huh. Check out Israel where many feminists and others too continue to support the draft for women AND increase their representation in combat units, including fighter pilots.
      Not to mention the push in the US to expand combat roles for women

      Liked by 1 person

    6. The feminism thing is a valid point. As a man, I have always found something rather ridiculous about other men who claim to be “feminists”… (Yes, they do exist…) Perhaps the problem is that we don’t have a word for masculinists yet, so we can’t do a survey on how many women would support them.
      Otherwise, to me it beggars belief that we are still striving for that “level playing field” in the 21st Century…

      Like

    7. I agree with you Feminism isn’t about equality but to make women the superior gender, which is as bad as it was before. And everybody is always talking about gender inequality for females, but what is with the males? If there are people dying, men are always ‘people’. On the other hand if females are dying or getting taken away, there are big protest and sadness. Men are always more seen as soldiers and are more ‘okay’ to die, what are feminists thinking about that?

      Like

    8. Just for a start look Ruth Bader Ginsberg who has fought workplace discrimination cases with men at the center. Open your eyes. Feminism asks for equal rights, period. If in your eyes we aren’t fighting hard enough for equal rights for someone not female, well boo hoo. Perhaps you should help out there.

      Like

    9. Smutje, why women should be obliged to fight against the forced military service of men?
      Feminism is about giving women the same rights that men have for centuries.
      If you think that women have one right that men don’t, you should go after your rights too.
      Speak up yourself and don’t ask us to fight your battles.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Then don’t expect us to fight yours. Stop asking us to do things for you, just because we are men, and we are supposed to do it. Take the same penalties.

        You guilt trip us to defend you, support you, help you, and then say “fight your own battles” when we struggle. Get lost.

        Keep this attitude up, and you really will have to go it alone.

        Good luck with that.

        Like

    10. Love this questioning of feminism. I believe it’s a barrier to men and women breaking down the stupidity of labels. On the final lap of confusion we ought to realise there is a reason for a great togetherness between us. Not to be divided or ruled.

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    11. “Men hold more power on average, true. But not because they have some secret brotherhood sworn on keeping women down. Rather because there are more men with money, economic influence and access to the means of production. The rich and influential are interested in keeping common folks from asking for their fair share, political in-fighting of the lower classes along gender trenches are a welcome distraction from asking about real equality.”

      You can’t say that it’s not about some secret brotherhood when there are secret brotherhoods behind most of the economic structures and legal structures that comprise our entire world order. It absolutely has to do with all of that, and those are masculine power structures.

      In terms of the laws regarding gender, the laws absolutely favor men in most every country on this planet. That needs to change.

      Like

  2. Well; let’s see how many people I can upset. I met my soul mate when I was 13. That day we became one,! 70 years later she passed over to the other side to prepare a place for me to be with her for all eternity. She not only saved my life but also saved my soul! Nine adult children ,48 Grand Children , and to date 13 Great Grand Children later I can can’t remember one time we ever went to bed angry with one another. I backed her up no matter what she decided to do. She took the lead in all things family, when she said it’s time to move, we moved, she picked out the house and I never questioned her decision! ( every time we moved we made beaucoup bucks, I took two of my sons to Africa on safari and upon returning home found a bull dozer in the side yard where she was building a pool complex so she could teach all her grand kids how to swim! Proved to be a sweet spot in our family life. Went blind when she turned 80 and willed herself to die three years later. For those three years we never left each other’s side. We were and are one to this day! GRAND PA , Jack

    Like

    1. Aw! What a gorgeous story! I’m so glad you two met and recognized that you were perfect for each other! I’m sure she’s waiting for you on that Other Side. Thank you for your comment.

      Like

  3. The whole description of a woman in this article….aka arrogance. Based on the criteria provided by this prototypical woman, the secret answer to this kind of life is having nobody…..except that ultimately does not bring happiness to this sort of person either. Because this type of woman is not really achieving all so much all for herself even though she likes to try and convince herself that is the case. She has a huge ego and people with huge ego need people to be around them and say “Oh wow, you are so strong; let’s write a book about you!” but of course our prototype here will wind up lonely. Yeah she may become wealthy and move up the ladder but point is…nobody will care. Because she failed as a human being- did not learn to love and care for people or have a sense of compassion.

    I have a wife, sisters, aunts, and friends who do not go by this criteria- they will be the first to admit they could not live without the men (husband, brother, friends) who shaped their life and many of us men mutually feel the same abou them. We have what is called emotional dependence…or in simple terms, being human. And financially or in terms of being part of each other’s dreams and aspirations, yes sometimes we all have on each other – both men and women depending on circmstance. But none of us look at each other as “weak” because of that so don’t you there even suggest that these prototypes in your article have a monopoly on those qualities of strenth and independence. All of the men and women I describe have also grown into being as independent as they needed to by circumstances. The difference is we all love each other and try to support each other; we don’t try to arrogantly compete with each other as these big-mouth femi-nazis have such a fetish for.

    Like

    1. If this article were describing a man, rather than saying he’s cold and arrogant, guys would be like, “That sounds like a successful dude.” I didn’t see anything in the article about her being in “competition” with her lover, she’s just not his doormat… “Has a huge ego,” “will wind up lonely,” “nobody will care.” Nope, this theoretical woman is not in competition, but you sound threatened, jelly, and like you’re in competition lol.
      In many countries today, women are treated like second class citizens or property. Heck, I just saw an article saying that in Turkey, the majority of women’s deaths are at the hands of their husbands…You know there’s a lot of guys that see that stuff and are just like “well, she should’ve made him a sandwich like he asked.”

      Liked by 8 people

      1. Zipzop…whatever:

        Yes, in many countries, not as often in the West. It happens more in those impoverished places. How is it a British lads fault if a Turkish man beats his wife? Idiot.

        Why do you people refuse to confront mysogyny in other cultures, for fear of being branded bigots, and THEN use it as a stick to beat western men with? FFS, it’s painful, it really is. Jesus fucking Christ.

        If that oppression bothers you, then support those women FIRST. They clearly need it a lot more.

        Hypocrites.

        For god’s sake, get a brain!

        Liked by 1 person

      2. It’s not a contest as to who has it worse, women here or there or anywhere. By making things better where we ARE we are opening the door to things being better in other places.

        Liked by 5 people

      3. Ferlonda, some people in those “other” places despise the West’s liberality. Many think we are degenerates.

        In some things, they aren’t wrong, in others their “values” are the last things we should embrace.

        But you left wing minded fools consider criticising them as racist. And you are right, in a way. Other cultures must evolve on their own timescale. Not our place to say.

        That doesn’t mean I have to accept their mindset or behaviour in my own society. If it is harmful, they can change, or leave. If not harmful, live and let live.

        If I can’t accept a society’s ways as an immigrant, I should go back home. I have chosen to live there. It’s up to ME to adapt.

        Like

      4. Criticizing social structures that result in the abuse of sometimes more than half their populations is valid. For example, I can accept that male and female circumcision is a tradition valued by some societies. Now that I know more about the horrendous damage these traditions can do to children I feel fine about criticizing this practice. It’s not about religion or race, it’s about not wanting people of any age to be surgically modified, often without anesthesia, without their informed consent. There is nowhere in the world I could go where circumcision of some kind is not practiced. So, I just bring this information up now and then to my peers- because small changes that happen locally spread. Even one child saved from this is a good thing. If, as an adult, they choose to modify their bodies, great! Go for it!

        Little changes work: I was in the forefront of girls who were finally allowed to wear pants to school. It was a tiny change- but now nearly all women can wear what used to be perceived as men’s clothes without fear of being bullied, beaten, or ostracized. I would love it if men had the same freedom.

        Why is this bad? Why would you interpret this as racist?

        Like

  4. Oh, my lord look at these comments. Please everyone, why are you introducing off-topic criteria? I mean I guess it’s the lens you all read it through. As I single myself out in midst and between an age-old feminine-masculine wound-validatory war that had little to do with the very specific theme of the article -to begin with.

    Let’s at least touch on the actual article, it’s very good and I’d at least like to talk about it.

    Dr. Taylor’s article is towards men, who want a ‘strong, independent woman’. And in perfect synchronicity to my ironic opposite-side of the spectrum which I’ve been writing about the past month: women who say they want a sensitive man who’s in touch with his emotional side.

    Now it’s funny, this article inherently seemed completely alien to me. I’m an emotional guy, (Pisces Moon twelfth-house, oh and yes, an Astrologer) and I suppose the type of man who this article is aimed at doesn’t really vibe with me because I can’t say I know any guy who has said such, although I’m sure some of the guys I know seek out that sort of ideal in partner.

    Actually, not many people vibe with me at all, except for the elderly. And I used to be very depressed about it, and yet as I talk about my emotions I can already predict a rising blood-pressure in the necks of the readers – and that’s not from me looking at the stars. No no, if you’ve noticed in Dr. Taylor’s article – it’s very much the same – stopping to stomp our foot down in mid-paragraphs to say with a grounded-stance to show off the muscle gained with-scar from having already bested hundreds in-just-that-argument-we “psychically know” you’re aiming to pick.

    So why is it mine was triggered like an a priori magic bullet from just what I said above?

    -because I am a man and I was talking about how I feel, and the feeling was a tone of depression,
    which in my experience inherently means to the narcissistic general populace – and the general populace is, in my emotional sensitivity’s view – narcissistic religiously -“he’s playing victim” – as ironically I get projected upon, being claimed as the narcissist for stating I was depressed – an emotion that tends to be rejected completely from empathy – or being sincere at all.

    It’s punished by men because we’ve been gaslighted out of our emotions since a very young age and being in touch with our emotions means being allowed to show them and not be attacked.

    Can a man be sensitive in his emotions these days and divulge the ways he’s hurt without being seen as “pathetic” or ugly in them?

    As we’re kids we’re conditioned once we reach a certain age – to be “strong” – which means our sensitivity is completely ignored and we’re shunned of our emotions – dependant on the family and societal values of course, but I haven’t met a man more in touch with his emotions than me and that’s not pride speaking, that’s despair – another emotion the narcissistic who reject empathizing with can’t bear to witness, much less listen to without wanting to vehemently thrash at after the fact.

    And it’s funny.
    You see, I can’t be sure Jessica herself will even hear me beyond the emotion and defensive stomps of overstood aspects in order to empathize with me here, yet we both entirely speak scientifically – of dynamics. Pure and simple, hardly opinionated since it’s personal experience backed by practicality on both sides, and even easily both seen as socially true, and deserving of empathy in retrospect of an overall understanding since both -if given that- would benefit our society to understand the dynamics.

    Look at me, I’ve written about as long as the o.p. I apologize, and thank any who’ve taken the time to read this far. Let me summarize a bit better.

    ➲ Women who claim to want a “sensitive man” – are inherently fooling themselves, or straight up lying to themselves in denial as they cringe at the sign of emotion from any man, as is easily evident enough by there mere fact that men are terrified to be open and vulnerable with our emotions

    ➲ Obviously this is a very unhealthy dynamic since all emotions are needed and needed to be expressed clearly and fluently in order for there to be:
    ⇢ clear communication.
    ⇢ authenticity.
    ⇢ rooted sence of self identity without being gaslighted from meeting your own expressions enough to understand them Yes, obviously I have. And despite the current cultural ego-dogmas aiming to vilify me for authentic emotions expressed, and yes, healthily expressed and -as much as narcissists hate to hear- innocently expressed.
    ⇢ actual relationships, as it’s only creating more of a rift culturally as the image degenerates of what romance “is”, since women are also sometimes gaslighted out of their emotions as well. I’ve talked to a few who had marriages where their husbands seemed to be jealous of their ability to express their emotions so they wouldn’t “allow” them to – which is also substantial evidence.

    ➲ I could even hypothesize that a good majority of **MAN**-made terroristic violence and attacks – especially the more psychotic ones in society – are inherently due to men not being able to cope with their emotions. And men wouldn’t be able to cope with their emotions because they haven’t been allowed to openly express them and be returned with compassion and trust in that safe environment to be there – not since we were little boys at least.

    Of course, this could all be my perspective and way off.
    I thought the article itself sounded alien and weird, but the ironic theme of it I entirely empathized with.
    It doesn’t seem like we contradict each other anywhere, if anything in a strange way, maybe compliment each other’s arguments.

    Regardless, as an Emotional-Libra Astrologer,

    I hope we can all find balance and meet somewhere in the middle.

    Like

    1. I am very happily married to a sensitive, kind and deeply emotional man. It’s been well over thirty years we’ve been together and I wouldn’t trade him for anyone or anything. But I didn’t aim to have a sensitive, emotional man, I aimed for a person who knew who he/shes was, what she/he wanted, who was honest and kind and accepting. The marvelous person I was introduced to was looking for the same thing! I’m not into astrology particularly, but a dear friend of ours was. He ran our charts and was amazed to find that out of something like 600 compatibility points we had over 500!

      Your last comment is the vital one: without balance and an ability to meet in the middle, or to at least allow others to do so, is what we all need.

      Liked by 1 person

      1. Also, I’m not alone in my main social circle. Nearly all the women are strong and independent, nearly all the men are gentle and emotionally “literate.” We all get along incredibly well and work hard to make sure everyone, male, female or other, feels heard, supported and valued. I know several thousand people I can say this about. So, a little village’s worth, I suppose. 🙂 That’s a lot of folks living really good lives and being happily loved by others. It IS possible!

        Liked by 3 people

      2. That is so beautiful to hear and thank you for your reply.
        You bring up a good point and I think that maybe is what it is.

        I live in a very crowded city and it’s more men than women here, so a lot of the culture is primed towards some very nasty treatment from person to person and general lack of empathy.

        I’m not even originally from here, I’d love to get out,

        and I’m definitely glad my perception of the world is wrong in this sense.

        To the depressed like the state of mind I’ve had, we definitely don’t want our thoughts of the world to be right.

        Hopefully I can move back home soon.

        Like

    2. If you have an issue grab a tissue. You clearly have a mental disorder that’s keeping you from expressing yourself without already thinking that the male reader who reads your bi polar comments will automatically call you weak/insecure. Which tbh is one of your underlying issues. If you truly were comfortable speaking about your emotions and that you have an extremely sensitive side. Then you shouldn’t acknowledge the nay saying voice that somehow assumes all males who quote un quote don’t have the empathy to read your message of being overly sensitive, and almost encourage people who aren’t able to put themselves in your shoes to say “ he’s a pussy” or “ he is definitely hiding in the closet” .. The fact is your confidence or lack there of permits this self doubt and constant self-defeating mentality.. have you ever considered getting tested for low testosterone? Or bi polar disorder? Sounds like your sensitive side is a complete facade and you really aren’t the things you claim to be. Otherwise I would think you might have a better way of making sure you’re being sensitive and caring to your own mental health.

      Like

  5. “If … you hate the concept of feminism, you’re better off just leaving all women alone to be honest… If you can’t get behind [feminism], stay away from females forever.”

    Done.

    Gladly.

    Now reciprocate, parasite.

    Liked by 1 person

      1. Yep. I walked away from people like The Real Misogynist and never looked back. Happily married for over thirty years to a fantastic feminist man!

        Liked by 2 people

  6. I get it and agree in part. But the other half then where is the relationship. Where is the partnership for that truly is what makes for a good relationship. Where is the ability to feel less, to hurt, to mourn to cry to want to give up when life kicks you down? Being strong independent is a good thing for too many women find themselves in a place of need and then that gets them stuck. But in order for a relationship to truly work you have to bend, give up control, meet your partners needs, wants. You have to give up some of you in order for things to truly work out.

    Like

    1. Jeff, being strong and independent doesn’t mean a person doesn’t work with their partner to make a good relationship. Bending, yes, but it needs to be a fairly equal amount of bending from both sides. And, it’s not a question of giving up control, it’s more a sharing of control- at least not in the kind of relationships we’re likely talking about here. (There are healthy ways to do power exchange but that’s not what we’re talking about here.) And you shouldn’t EVER have to give up “some of you” to make a relationship work, unless it’s something that will make your self a better person, like giving up hoarding empty plastic bottles, learning to deal with anger problems and getting to new ways of dealing with anger other than violence, or some other negative character trait that would need changing whether you’re in a relationship or not.

      For example, in my marriage I learned new skills so that I could work with my partner and help us make a living. He learned to work on cars from me and to understand why it was important to have a reliable vehicle. I stopped maxing out my credit card and learned how to ration myself to keep it from happening again, and to appreciate the not being in debt! He learned to let go of some of our money so that I could get myself (inexpensive) treats now and then. Et cetera.

      What we didn’t do was insist that the other person HAD to change, or had to change in ways that we thought best. For example, we have mostly similar tastes in video entertainment but not across the board. He watches cooking shows on his own, I watch horse training videos on my own. Now and then we’ll share one that’s particularly funny or cute or interesting but we don’t insist that either of our choices are the only valid ones or make fun of the other person for our taste.

      We’ve been together over thirty years now and we’re still deeply in love. We spend nearly all our time together, and he’s the only person I’ve ever met who I could do that with. Maybe it’s because we’re both loners so we understand the other person’s need for autonomy and time alone. Maybe it’s because along with all our love we also deeply respect each other. Maybe it’s because we love to see each other happy and actively work to make that happen on a daily basis. Maybe it’s because we’d both had so many sad or disastrous relationships and just never wanted to be in such straits again, and then did the personal work so that we would be ready when the right person came along. I don’t know. But I do wish everyone could be as happy and contented as we are.

      Liked by 1 person

  7. Why do feminists believe that only women with great careers are strong and independent? The poor woman or lower paid woman is easily controlled by men and not independent? Not always! Why do I need to make tons of money in order for feminists to think I am not controlled by men.

    Like

    1. This feminist doesn’t think that at all. I would be a total hypocrite if I did- I hardly make any money at all. The only way a lack of money makes it harder to be independent is in the day to day stuff like food, rent, insurance, etc. Otherwise, it’s all about the person. Cats rarely make money and they laugh at people who try to control them. xo

      Liked by 1 person

  8. 9/10 of the self proclaimed “strong, independent” women I dated were independent…except when it came to picking up the lunch tab, carrying heavy stuff and killing spiders.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. They should definitely have shared tabs with you, or treated you- that’s only fair. But carrying heavy stuff is not always a possibility for some people of any sex/gender. Why not help out if you can? As for the spider thing- not everyone can get past a phobia. Why not help them then, too? I do the spiders (I don’t kill them), my husband does the heavier lifting, and we share all expenses. Works fine when you’re both on board and communicate what works or doesn’t for you.

      Liked by 2 people

  9. Yes.
    And I’ve been married to a woman for 28yrs who doesn’t need me at all. She wants me. I realised years ago what a privilege that is, to be wanted by a woman who doesn’t need a man.

    I really like the article.
    The only thing I disagree with is the “more successful” comment. I believe that success should be personally defined, not societally. So a powerful woman may earn more, and have higher standing but that doesn’t mean that she is more “successful”. For example if her husbands personal definition of success is being an amazing teacher then he too is successful in his personal definition, there is no “more or less” successful.

    I want to own a business and Chair a charity. My wife wants a rewarding unstressfull part time job, to do some volunteer work, to spend time with friends, family and by herself. Neither of us are more successful than the other. We have both found our personal success.

    Liked by 2 people

  10. Any woman who openly states that even mothers don’t have the duty to nurture their sons is a psychopath when it comes to thinking about men and their internal lives. Some women, like you, seem to fetishize sadistic attacks on men’s emotional connections and sense of self-worth. Men have to expect nothing and always earn everything, supposedly, and even then not expect any benefits. People owe nothing to each other in even loving relationships. Relationship quality should only be subject to transient and always conditional levels of interest. You can’t build a happy life with this approach to understanding and functioning in society. Luckily it’s rare that a woman adopts these views. It’s only due to perversely narcissistic thinking that anyone can even come to these positions. I’ve been in a relationship with a woman like you seem to be, and it became very obvious to me that this style of thinking leads to the woman being emotionally abusive due to a complete lack of ability to empathize with a male partner. Men should not only avoid fetishizing this kind of woman, but should also avoid entering into relationships with them for any reason at all, because they will be treated poorly no matter how much work they put in, as the woman pretty much openly states or implies.

    Like

  11. Feminism is the radical notion that feminity is human. That feminity looks, sounds ‘BE’ a mariod of emotional, physic, physical attributes, and IS human.

    Why is it that feminity (notice I didn’t say women, girl, female etc.?) Is in ALL its menifestations so threatening??? So frieghtening??

    I am a woman, why wouldent I be pro- feminine? Why wouldent I see feminity as human??? Why is that so threatening??

    What if we as a collective of humens were SPIRITUALLY male and female? That the indavidual is determining how much of what in each of ourselves is female/male? Hating the mere mention of feminism, without even understanding its varied meanings, is to me hating subtely/overtly all that is feminine in ourselves, and the world around us.

    We project that hatred onto others, and I say “we” due to everyone at some point hates the feminine as if it were weak in some fashion in mainstream America. (Patrioarcy is so prevalent and unbalanced that everyone “swallows” its lies occationally. Lol…) The hatred of the Feminine, is the self loathing of the femininty in us all. In turn, this ignorance of feminism, a celerbration of being a girl/woman, this unconcious wobbling through life NOT celerbrating your own femininity, becomes a type of projecting hatred onto feminism.

    Being Fearful/unconcious of feminine parts of self, not listening to its layered existance within you or others, is like internalizingany ism, ie sexism, racism etc, which begets fear, which begets frustration, than the ego driven justification of perpetuating more hatred. Welcome to the hamster wheel of patrioarchy!! Its like having a cage with six squirrels all chirpingat the same time, on crack!!
    Aby

    Liked by 1 person

  12. Femininity isn’t the problem, it is that feminists want to demonise masculinity, as if it was theirs to decide on. You are not men, so you have no valid insights about my personal experience.

    Women own their own femininity, it is theirs to embrace or ignore. I have no problem with that. I am not a woman. Not for me to decide. Men who try to control you are pretty sad.

    So with all respect ladies, quit telling us how a man should be. You only have a say in how I treat you, not who I am, nor what I think. If I personally harm you, you can act in kind to me, but no other man should or can answer for what I do. Nor can I answer for another man’s actions.

    The same right applies to you. You can hate us all you want, but you WILL leave us alone. If you don’t, you will continue to get more “stuff”, but little happiness. Your choice.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. “Shovanistism”? Cannot find this in the dictionary. If you are talking about male chauvinism, then no, feminism has nothing in common with any sort of chauvinism.

      Stop making up stuff about feminism and actually talk to women about it. Or even read some books and articles. Look for real feminism or radical feminism if you want the truth. So-called liberal feminism isn’t feminism but rather femininity of sorts.

      Like

  13. Independent women don’t need men, eh? Well, who is going to impregnate them, then? Unless they can afford artificial insemination, or to adopt, and to be a single mother, THEY’RE SCREWED. All this consumerist, careerist dross women have fallen for, just like their male counterparts they are competing against, will not leave a woman happy and satisfied without a child. Womb ache and the loud ticking of biological clocks can keep a woman awake and weary at night, and empty consumerism is burning down the world.

    Motherhood has been demonised over recent decades because careerist women without children are jealous of family women. And where does that career crap leave you childless ladies, ultimately? Watching Sex and the City reruns and weeping over Prosecco in the house and writing bitter columns and blogs about how evil men are. I am smiling here. You ladies have been sold a pup and sailed proudly with it, right down the river of absolute modern late capitalist idiocy and never-fulfillment. Have fun! 🙂

    By the way. Every ‘respect women’ tenet you laid out? Try the same the other way round. Men hate women who have an us-vs-them hardcore feminist attitude, a sense of entitlement because they have vaginas, no sense of humour, and the confused middle classes are the absolute worst culprits. Tiresome in the extreme.

    Like

    1. This is such a misguided, misinformed comment. Millions of women don’t have children and don’t want children – they don’t yearn for them and they don’t become some weird stereotype you learned from an American sitcom.

      What makes you think that having children is the only way a woman is fulfilled? Is that the same for men?

      Have you considered how many women do have children and love them, but aren’t ‘fulfilled’ by having children and then go on to build a career whilst raising children and find their fulfilment in their career or hobby or skills?

      You really have such a one dimensional view of women that I would expect circa 1950 but not now.

      Liked by 2 people

  14. So very many sad angry men who are unable to read and understand their native language. She’s telling you not to chase an independent woman unless you have the characteristics for hert and you’re all up in arms at this good advice. Simply don’t look for women who don’t suit you. Few women are going to be willing to change for a man who wants to change her (and vice versa).

    Men don’t know what’s good for them even if it’s staring them in the face.

    If this is not you, then the article is not about you and there’s no need to get all mad and petulant.

    Liked by 2 people

    1. Men and women both need to bring something to the table.

      If one partner expects the other to work hard at the relationship, and then takes the view “I owe you nothing” when they need to reciprocate in kind, then they are an arsehole.

      Both sexes are more than capable of acting like this, but one gets far less flak for it. Care to guess which?

      I love independent women who expect and need nothing from me. And I’ll be happy when I meet one.

      Love is a choice, not an obligation.

      Liked by 1 person

    2. So why do feminists get angry about general comments on women by, say, MRAs? The first thing they say is”I’m not like that. Not all women..blah..blah”

      As you said, if that’s not you, why get mad and petulant about it?

      Ladies, please look at what you say, and how you behave. Compare the two. Then try to avoid hypocrisy. It doesn’t help your cause.

      Like

  15. I agree with your points. But does it imply that a ‘strong independent’ woman has the right to be contemptuous of her partner, to insult him whenever she feels like? You have stressed on the fact that such women demand equality and there cannot be any question of being dominated. However, I have seen that the situation reverses and she becomes the dominant partner and expects the man to become submissive. This isn’t a desirable situation either, one which you haven’t touched upon.

    Liked by 2 people

  16. Every Strong Independent Person Reading This Article: Exactly. (Also…duh.)

    Everyone Else: BuT FeMeNiSmMmMm!!!!! *****TrIgGeReD*****

    Get on The Team, People. Do Better.

    Liked by 1 person

  17. This essay did make me uncomfortable, but not for the reasons the author anticipated. I am torn between having pity for the men this is written for, and having contempt for them. As she was describing her intended audience, my stomach churned with revulsion. I feel sorry for women who encounter such men.

    Like

      1. Another one🙄
        Bbblackmoor:
        Again, do you have anything constructive to say? Insults achieve nothing by themselves.

        There is a reason they are like this. Try to walk a mile in their shoes.

        Still, do you feel better now? Clearly you are a superior sort. Well done.😒

        Like

  18. Only edit I would’ve made is to replace all instances of women or men to partner.

    Don’t expect your independent partner to fix you or save you. Don’t fetishize your independent partner into a dom(me) or top. Don’t expect your independent partner to babysit you.

    Like

  19. I guess if you give this to your male partner to read and he flips out about “what about the men!” instead of having a rational discussion of the article, then you might want to let him go.

    Liked by 1 person

    1. Sure. Why not support independent contractors? I’ve felt for a very long time that prostitution should be legalized and dealt with the way it is in the Netherlands.

      Like

  20. Thank you for allowing this blog post to be translated and published on a foreign website – it’s actually a fascinating read.

    What’s most interesting about it to me is the description of men and their (perceived?) perception of strong women. Having spent most of my life in a social bubble where this sort of fetishizing is unthinkable, and only recently entering a professional space with more diverse people, this text clicks and seems to fit right in.

    On a related note, it would seem that to equalize the biting tone of the text, it could use an appendix/reminder that the same applies the other way around. The goal in life seems to be finding an equal partner, whether it’s the goal of a strong woman/man, or those less so. The sort of man described here will get burnt by an actually strong woman but will fool one that really isn’t, and vice versa.

    Finally, it should be noted that the text draws heavily on the current US society and culture, and it takes a bit of imagination to translate it to, for instance, my Czech experience. The prevalence of US culture in media eases that in, but at the same time means it’s not THAT revelatory and it’s the result of the mental effort of cultural translation that sparked my interest. I’d be extremely interested in reading a similar text based on experience from other countries/cultures too.

    Like

  21. I married a woman who is strong and independent and is also devoted to her family and to me. She’s the breadwinner and I’m a stay at home parent. I pull my weight, which is metaphorically heavy, and get the shit done that needs to be done. We get along well because both of us know that there’s no pushing the other around. It’s us against them and we’re going to win.

    It’s sad that this blog post needs to exist. Maybe people could get unhooked from the idea of men and women in relationships and more to the idea of partners. Which brings up the question, Do people in same sex relationships handle this problem more gracefully or are there still power dynamics to be resolved?

    Liked by 2 people

    1. What a lovely comment. I agree with you on the “partner” front. That’s how my husband and I work together in general. It does seem to make things easier and with fewer ingrained patterns rearing up their heads, especially when we have things to work out.

      My personal feeling is that all relationships have power dynamics regardless of the sex/gender/orientation of the people involved.

      Like

  22. Are you really convinced that all women are or want to be strong and independent? What about women who are not, or do not want to be strong and independent (and do not feel bad in this position at all)? And what is wrong with men who do not want strong and independent women? The text is a terrible shit!

    Like

    1. The post is pretty specific. I don’t think she’s denigrating any woman, or man, who prefers to be other than strong and independent. Why is it so important to people to have one sex be one way and the other the opposite? It’s okay to be any variation of these things and even to change during a day’s passing. it’s okay for men to cling and for women to be the support and vice versa. It’s through supporting each other that we have good relationships no matter what the scaffolding we put it on. At least, that’s what I see in successful, long term relationships around me. YMMV.

      Like

  23. Jessica! You need to watch your tone! This piece was dripping with contempt and a classic piece of man-hating commentary. There are just as many women who want a man to look after them as there are women who want to live like men of old and be goal oriented, shoot for the stars, unleash their ambition etc,etc. And where did that get men anyway – unavailable for relationships or family life or self care. It makes me angry that we are dangling the carrot of strong, independent, achieving, self-reliant lifestyles in front of women without critiquing that that didn’t really work for men and it doesn’t really work for humans all round. We are interdependent as a species. We all need each other. And what’s more, our young and our old need someone to build and sustain a nest rather than rushing out to conquer the world.

    Liked by 1 person

  24. Fantastic article. Love the accuracy. As a woman I think feminism is used to give women time to work their shit out but some still keep it in a farmyard value style. I agree men and women should arrive at a point where they value each other as equal human beings which should enable heaps of value reflection through the sexes. Better men and women means better sensuality and sex.

    Liked by 1 person

  25. Ah. So wrong on so many levels.
    1. 2 heads are better than 1. Scientifically proven. Imagine a symphony with one instrument. How stupid are you.
    2. On the whole. Men are stronger than women. Fact. Women will always be at a disadvantage physically. Get over it.
    3. Propogation. Enough said.
    4. Content people don’t write articles. Live your life.

    Like

    1. Two heads are just two heads. If the brains inside aren’t working together for the betterment of both they’re not much use to anyone. Soloists all over the world are happily playing to audiences who adore them. Insults are the response of the person who can’t think of a way to engage in rational discourse. Many men are stronger than many women, but women can be stronger than men just as men can be weaker than women. Plus, these days we have machinery to level the field. Also, why the heck should this matter to anyone? Two heads, remember? Propagation is not the only thing every single person is here for. Content people DO write articles. She IS living her life, and it looks like a really good one.

      So. Try again.

      Like

  26. Thanks for writing this. While it looks like some people are getting defensive or angry about the piece, I actually think your piece offers an opportunity for self-reflection for those who take that opportunity. To be completely honest with myself, there were definitely times in the past that I fell short with my own behaviors. Heck, on occasions I still feel short on Question #1 (Are you comfortable with her having goals, priorities and ambitions that don’t include you?).

    Like

  27. I love the English but the content is hogwash, I always refer to Ellen Johnson Sirleaf, with her High standards and achievements, she still did not have this feminist minds that this millennial babies tend to bombard their males with. Just keep in Mind nature cant be fought.

    Like

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